This article is an interview with Michael Saylor, founder and executive chairman of MicroStrategy, on The Sujal Show podcast. In the program, Michael systematically elaborated on his long-term Bitcoin strategy, defining Bitcoin as "digital capital" and "digital gold," believing its core value lies in providing economic empowerment and long-term value storage capabilities. Michael reviewed his transformation from skepticism towards large-scale allocation and promotion of institutional adoption of Bitcoin, emphasizing that Bitcoin is a future-oriented "currency index" with a long-term return logic superior to gold and traditional index assets. As institutionalization progresses, its volatility is decreasing; although pullbacks will still occur, the probability of extreme crashes has significantly decreased. Regarding the narrative of "altcoins yielding 100x returns," he believes the probability of small projects growing into tech giants is extremely low; rather than pursuing extreme returns, it's better to allocate to fundamental assets of the digital age. Michael's overall strategy consists of three layers: Digital Capital (directly holding Bitcoin), Digital Credit (credit products based on Bitcoin), and Digital Equity (company equity, bearing higher volatility and leverage). At the macro level, he holds a technologically optimistic stance, believing that digital intelligence and digital assets will reshape the economic structure. The advice for young people is: study history, read science fiction, make good use of AI, and focus on areas of long-term advantage in future technologies. The content of this conversation does not represent Wu Shuo's views and does not constitute any investment advice. Please strictly abide by local laws and regulations. The audio transcription was done by GPT and may contain errors. Defining Bitcoin's Core Value as "Economic Empowerment" Sujal: If you were to recommend Bitcoin to someone who knows nothing about it, even to the point of persuading them to sell their house to buy one, what would your core recommendation be in one sentence? Michael: If you're looking for empowerment, if you're looking for economic "immortality," then you should pay attention to Bitcoin. Sujal: But given its current size, Bitcoin may find it difficult to rise 10, 20, or 30 times, while some altcoins might. How would you respond to this statement? Michael: 99% of small companies won't grow into Apple or Google. Assets with true long-term value and sustainable competitive advantage are extremely rare. Bitcoin is like a "high-quality asset" in the digital age, while the vast majority of altcoins will not become the next great company. Sujal: Regarding the cycle, we've seen Bitcoin reach an all-time high, followed by a 70% to 80% pullback. Do you think this cycle will see a similar pattern? Michael: Bitcoin's volatility has been steadily declining over the past decade.Further declines are still possible, but as the market matures, institutional participation increases, and global awareness grows, the overall volatility is gradually converging. Sujal: Some experts believe a massive crash is imminent due to multiple risks, including AI bubbles, stock market bubbles, and currency devaluation. Do you really believe a systemic crash is coming? Also, you started with only $50,000 and built a company with a market capitalization of approximately $50 billion. If a younger version of Michael Saylor were watching this video, what framework or advice would you give him? Michael: I would tell my younger self to focus on building truly valuable, replicable, and scalable assets and systems. Continuously learn, continuously compound interest, and invest time and energy in areas with long-term structural advantages. When you find a "high-quality asset" that can create long-term value, you must have enough conviction to hold and add to your position. Personal Background: Engineering Idealism and Technological Faith Sujal: Mr. Saylor, you started with an initial $50,000 and built a company with a market capitalization of approximately $50 billion, making a name for yourself during the early boom of the internet in 2000. Aside from Bitcoin, what kind of person is Michael Saylor when no one is paying attention? Michael: I've always loved science fiction and fantasy. From a young age, I've been full of imagination about the future. While studying engineering at MIT, I developed a passion for engineering technology. Throughout my life, I've always believed that we can build a better world through engineering—whether it's spaceships, robots, or artificial intelligence. I've always firmly believed in the power of technology, that it can improve human society and drive civilization forward. This faith and passion for technology is the core driving force behind all my choices. Greatest Achievement: Bringing Bitcoin to the Institutional World Sujal: Looking back, what is your proudest achievement? Michael: I think my proudest achievement is discovering Bitcoin. Because Bitcoin is essentially an economic protocol that can bring prosperity to 8 billion people worldwide. Of all the things I've done, commercializing Bitcoin and bringing it into the institutional world and mainstream view as much as possible is probably my greatest achievement and my most important contribution. Life Vision: Integrating Bitcoin into Global Banks, Businesses, and Governments Sujal: What are the five things you hope to achieve in your lifetime? Michael: I hope to see Bitcoin integrated into all banks, all companies, all households, and all government systems worldwide. Because I believe Bitcoin is an economic protocol that can bring prosperity.If we break it down specifically, it would be: First, enabling the global banking system to use Bitcoin as a core asset and one of its settlement layers. Second, enabling businesses to include Bitcoin on their balance sheets as a long-term reserve asset. Third, enabling households to achieve long-term wealth protection by holding Bitcoin. Fourth, enabling governments to recognize and integrate Bitcoin into their financial systems. Fifth, enabling Bitcoin to become a globally universal economic infrastructure. One-Minute Introduction: Bitcoin Brings Inalienable Property Rights Sujal: There was a time when you called Bitcoin a kind of "gambling." What changed your perspective? If you were to spend one minute introducing Bitcoin to someone who knows nothing about it, even persuading them to sell their house to buy one, what would your core proposition be? Michael: I would say this—for the first time in human history, we can tightly bind "economic energy" to an individual. That is, the private key you remember can represent your wealth. This is an extremely profound transformation in human history. This means that Bitcoin provides unrestricted and inalienable property rights protection for every individual and every company on Earth. No matter where you were born, no matter what system you live under, you can own your own property rights. This is essentially a tool for "economic empowerment." Therefore, if you pursue personal empowerment, if you seek a kind of "economic immortality," then you should pay attention to Bitcoin. The "Three Wishes to Transform Gold" Analogy to Bitcoin's Advantages Sujal: For example, in India, households hold nearly $3 trillion worth of gold. People have a deep trust in gold and will pass it down through generations. If we want them to also believe in Bitcoin and pass it on to the next generation, how would you convince them? Michael: If I met a genie who could grant me three wishes, and my goal was to "transform gold," to make gold better, I would wish for the following: First wish: Make gold unminable. Ensure that only 21 million "gold" coins ever exist. Second wish: Allow gold to be transmitted globally at the speed of light and stored in cyberspace. Third wish: Make gold programmable—capable of performing millions of transactions and operations per minute, and manageable on mobile phones or computers. If all three wishes are fulfilled, then gold will become more valuable. And when all three are achieved, it is no longer gold in the traditional sense, but Bitcoin.Investment Framework for Digital Capital, Digital Credit, and Digital Equity Sujal: We already have Bitcoin, which possesses these characteristics. That's great. Recently, Strategy (formerly MicroStrategy) stock has experienced a pullback, which has scared some people. What would you like to say to all Strategy supporters and Bitcoin believers? Michael: I would say this—it depends on your time horizon, risk tolerance, and what kind of asset you want. If you have funds that you won't need to access for the next 4 to 10 years, and you don't want to trust any counterparties and just want to permanently control your wealth, then you should buy "digital capital"—that is, Bitcoin, digital gold. It is pure property, pure capital. You hold it without relying on any company or institution. If you have funds that you might need in 4 weeks, 4 months, or less than 4 years, and you cannot tolerate high volatility, then you should consider "digital credit"—that is, credit instruments backed by Bitcoin. For example, one of the more well-known products issued by our company is STRC, which aims to stabilize at around $100 and provides about 10% dividend returns. This type of asset has lower volatility and emphasizes cash flow. If you are optimistic about the digital future, believe in the development of digital capital and digital credit, and wish to make more leveraged investments, then you can purchase equity in our company, MSTR (now Strategy). However, it's important to understand that equity is more volatile; you are betting on the company's execution capabilities, potentially seeking 10x or even 100x returns. In summary: Bitcoin is pure digital capital—you own it without trusting anyone else. Digital credit instruments emphasize stability and cash flow. Company equity is a highly elastic bet on the future of the digital economy. Ultimately, the choice of asset depends on your time horizon, risk appetite, and what type of investor you are. Altcoins vs. Index Assets: Probability and Risk Discussion Sujal: I recently introduced Bitcoin to a friend, saying that Bitcoin is unlikely to rise 100x, 20x, or 30x again, but altcoins might. How would you respond? Michael: Indeed, there are thousands of small companies in the market, and a very small number of them may indeed grow into giants. Occasionally, a company that started as a million dollars might grow into a trillion-dollar company, but that's a one-in-a-million chance, extremely rare. You might be right once, but statistically, the odds aren't in your favor.On the other hand, you can buy the S&P 500 index, which has averaged an annualized return of around 14% over the past five years; gold has also seen roughly similar annualized growth in recent years. Bitcoin, essentially, is buying a "currency index of the digital future." Its average annual growth rate over the past few years has been around 45%. If your goal is to hold an index-like asset—one that is more advantageous than gold and has more growth potential than traditional stock indices—then you can choose Bitcoin. Its structural risk is relatively lower because it is the core asset of the entire digital currency system. Of course, you may not get a million-fold return. But similarly, 99% of small companies will not become large companies, and 99% of large companies will not become Apple or Google. Ultimately, you have to face a matter of probability. Investing is not about fantasizing about maximum returns, but about rationally assessing risks and probabilities and then making choices that align with your expectations. Will there be a major crash? Tech optimism responds Sujal: Many economists and experts are warning of an impending major crash, citing reasons including an AI bubble, a stock market bubble, currency devaluation, and so on. Do you really believe there will be a systemic crash? How should ordinary investors protect their wealth? Michael: Pessimists predict the worst-case scenario for every new technology. They say robots will take our jobs, AI will render humans irrelevant or even replace us, and digital assets will disrupt the existing system. Optimists, on the other hand, see the same technology but arrive at completely different conclusions. They say perhaps we'll be "unemployed" because we no longer need to work. What would you call a family where no one needs to work? Rich. Perhaps robots will do our jobs, perhaps AI will make our lives easier and solve more problems, perhaps digital assets will make more people rich. I personally am a technological optimist. I believe digital intelligence is making the world a better place. I believe digital assets and digital capital are making the world richer. My advice is: embrace technology, embrace the future, and think about how to benefit from it, not fear it. Analysis of the Ten-Year Declining Trend in Bitcoin Volatility Sujal: You're an optimist, and so am I. In the past few cycles, we've seen Bitcoin reach all-time highs and then often retrace 70% to 80%. Do you think this cycle will see the same thing again? Michael: Bitcoin volatility has been steadily declining over the past decade.In its early days, Bitcoin was an asset with an annualized volatility as high as 200%; later, it dropped to around 100%. When I first bought Bitcoin in 2020, its volatility was around 80%, meaning that if the price rose from 100, it could also fall to 20—an 80% retracement. But afterwards, it gradually became an asset with volatility of 70%, 60%, 50%, and now it's even approaching 40%. As volatility decreases, the retracement is also narrowing. A pullback of around 35% is still possible in the future, but 35% is a completely different magnitude from the 70%-80% crashes of the past. I believe that over the next 20 years, Bitcoin's volatility will continue to gradually decline and begin to converge with the volatility levels of traditional market indices, such as the S&P 500 and the market volatility structure reflected by the VIX. Bitcoin's long-term performance may still be about 50% higher than the S&P 500, but its volatility may also be about 50% higher. However, it won't be as drastic as it was in the early days. The reason is that Bitcoin is being institutionalized—large banks, institutional investors, and large corporations are all participating. This institutionalization and large-scale participation naturally reduces the overall volatility of the asset. Advice for Young People: Focus on Future Technologies and Become a Top Performer Sujal: This is a question for the younger generation. In your 45-year career, what is the best advice you've received? What's the one sentence you'd like to share with the world? Michael: I think the best advice one can give to young people is—study the future, embrace the future. Think about how the future will fit into your life, and how you will fit into the future. Ask yourself: What do you truly love? What is the area you are truly passionate about? Then, focus all your energy on that one thing. If you want to do podcasts, strive to become the best podcast creator, use the best equipment, the most advanced platforms, and do it to the extreme. If you want to enter the field of AI, focus on AI and think about how to make a real contribution to this field. Don't try to be a "jack of all trades." You can't be a top performer in 100 fields, nor is it necessary. The key is to find a direction you truly love and go all out. Moreover, this direction should ideally be related to a technology that didn't exist in your parents' or grandparents' time. Only in this way can you make a unique and epoch-making contribution to the progress of human civilization—not only continuing the past but also surpassing it. Current Mission: Educating the World to Understand Bitcoin and Digital Credit Sujal: What is your current focus? What is your current mission?Michael: My focus is on educating the world about Bitcoin's role as "digital capital." Simultaneously, I'm committed to building "digital credit"—creating the world's best credit system. In today's world, most credit instruments only offer returns of around 3%, 4%, or 5%, while I hope to create a credit product backed by digital capital that can provide long-term returns of 8% to 10%. I believe this is a multi-trillion dollar opportunity, and the world truly needs it. If possible, I hope to provide everyone in the world with a bank account—regardless of their chosen currency—that offers 8% to 10% returns, and the underlying driving force of this system is digital capital, namely Bitcoin. Growth Path Advice: History, Science Fiction, and AI Learning Framework Sujal: If a younger version of Michael Saylor were watching this video, what kind of growth framework or advice would you give them? Michael: I would tell them to read more history. Through history, you can understand how civilizations rise and fall, how technology changes the world, how capital flows, and how institutions shape society. Also, read more science fiction and fantasy. Science fiction helps you think about the future, allowing you to transcend the limitations of reality and imagine worlds yet to come. Many world-changing innovations originated in science fiction. Also, spend a significant amount of time with AI. Treat AI as your personal tutor. Let it help you learn, think, and predict future trends, training your logic and judgment. History helps you understand the past, science fiction helps you imagine the future, and AI helps you accelerate your growth. Recommended Reading: The Story of Civilization Inspires a Long-Term Perspective Sujal: In the fields of science or thought, is there any book you would particularly recommend? Michael: I've read many books. I think one of the greatest works is The Story of Civilization by Will Durant. It's a monumental work on world history, exceeding 15,000 pages. If you truly understand what humanity has done, experienced, and created over the past few millennia, it will greatly broaden your horizons. History is not just a record of the past; it inspires you to find your own direction. When you understand the evolution of civilization, you can think more clearly about your place in the times and what you can create in the future. [Wu Blockchain]